Following on from my earlier post exposing the train fares scam since the “simplification”, I have an update:
Cross Country admit the wrongly priced ticket are STILL on sale - even though they say they’ve know about them for a week (since last Wed - even though I first contacted them on 29th April!)
And yet, a letter from Arriva XC arrived this very morning - the key sentence is:
“Value tickets are now being charged based on the milage[sic] used. I can confirm the cots[sic] of your tickets are correct and in line with the CossCountrys[sic] fare structure for Value tickets”.
Here’s where we are now - I phoned ATOC, passenger focus, Virgin and Cross Country. They all blame each other, and after I gave up with the interweb and call centres, I went into a ticket office, and a helpful man looked at his official fare book, scratched his head, looked at something else, scratched his head again, looked puzzled and explained:
“I don’t understand this - according to the official fare book from ATOC, your ticket has gone up from £12 to £16 but that £16 fare isn’t shown as existing in the ticket system, another part of which says that the cheapest fare is £19.50 but that doesn’t exist either, and the cheapest ticket I can now find on the system is £21 which is an incorrect fare which it won’t let me book”.
He then rubbed his head in his hands and explained that basically, the whole thing had been a nightmare and that just today they had found another anomaly which meant that a certain Cross Country first class fare was £72 more than it should have been!
I tell you, this thing is going to blow up big time - but it’s taking more time and energy than I have. Can anyone help me with this? I need a fares expert and a media expert - I’ve contacted the Western Mail, Daily Telegraph, You and Yours and Moneybox. I need help pushing this story out to more media though, and with more rock-solid examples of how the public are being ripped off by this scam. Like this example below…
“Why are the downloads from my Mobilcast/Melodeo application [provided by Three] of such low quality?”.
Mobilcast/Melodeo never reply anyway, so I emailed three.
The phone call you hear below is unedited - the third such phone call regarding this, even after I emailed customer services stating the problem and saying “please don’t ring me about this, just reply”.
I’m sure everyone will sympathise when I say that I find Indian call centres to be possibly one of the most unpleasant and frustrating things to deal with these days, and so I have managed to rid myself of all banks and companies which use them (explaining why I’m leaving too) except the damn contract with three (”please wait some moments [25 minutes] which I check the informations on these details and then
tell you to use the reset function of your phone even though a key is physically broken”).
Anyhoo…I started recording about 15 minutes after she first rang, and before my dinner had finished cooking. So, you’ll hear some cutlery action in the background. I kid you not, the whole phone call was as slow and unhelpful as this….and yes, she really does tell me to take the battery out while talking to her, and that rebooting the phone will improve the download bitrate/audio quality of podcasts…
Have you had a worse call? It got me thinking - there is excellent wind-up potential here! Find some words they don’t know (”I have a problem with the zeotrope wangling functionality of my Nokia Discombobulator”) and see if you can make it amusing, and how much of their time you can waste. Them drop me an email with the file and I’ll add it here!
UPDATE! I had a reply from Melodeo shortly after posting this blog:
Jonathan,
I sincerely apologize for not getting back to you sooner.
I was alerted by your digitaltoast post. Thanks for not bashing us. We are a very small company — and I will be honest with you…
Mobilcast does not get the attention that it used to. We have been putting all our energy on our newest product, nuTsie.
1) podcast and sync’ing - Looked like there was an issue with Pat Condell’s Godless Comedy — it was stuck in the trans coding phase. I have resolved this.
2) poor audio quality - This is carrier/connectivity specific — not much I can do here, I read your blog post about your experiences with Three customer service.
3) poor search results on mobile - I have let head of engineering know about this - I will continue to let this be known
4) downloader on mobile - same as #3. As this is a product feature, I will continue to harp about it.
Thank you very much for your patience, and I apologize greatly for the delay.
Good on them for answering…at last! And I believe them when they say that the audio quality is down to Three.
I started twitting via my mobile yesterday - after all, it appeared to be a UK number and Twitter said there were NO extra charges apart from your standard network rates.
Fortunately, something made me check after just four texts…it cost me £1, ie: 25p each! Twitter texts are NOT included in the standard text charge, even though there is nothing to suggest that 07624801423 will be charged at premium international rates.
Here are some posts on the twitter customer care centre:
UPDATE! Here’s a bit of audio - I called Three customer services after receiving my bill and confirming the charges for +44 7624 801423 or 07624801423.
Yes, I know it’s not a “Man X” number, and no, I don’t usually say things like “I just wonder if you could verify some informations at this time please”, but then, that’s the kind of thing I have to put up with when I call three!
I found plenty of people complaining of unexpected bills of £100’s, and this blog explains it well:
Note that they talk about “standard” rates applying - I’m pretty sure most people wouldn’t class a hidden premium rate as standard!
Twitter says it doesn’t charge for texts sent to twitter.
“A special word of caution for International folks: some carriers (such as Orange) don’t charge an international fee to use the Twitter UK number. Others consider it an international number and charge up to .15 per message. Remember to check your phone plan for international rates; be aware that standard messaging rates vary by carrier, and do apply. “
Lie #1: It’s not 15p, it’s 25p
Lie #2: “A special word of caution for International folks” -
I’m not international! There’s no dialling code. How the heck am I supposed to know that a normal length 07 uk mobile number is 25p and not included?
I cannot get to the bottom of how much twitter make off each 25p, but I wish they would be honest about it. I nearly got caught out like others - my bill could have been £100’s.
And I don’t for one second believe they’re not making on the charges - why on earth would they choose that bizarre number unless they were?
OK, I got a reply from twitter….
crystal, Official Rep, replied:
Hi guys,
Twitter does not profit from your SMS messages, but we do pay a hefty bill for international SMS ourselves, which we consider part of running the business. We do not want you getting a huge bill; that doesn’t do anyone any good.
We do caution people to check with their providers when using any of our numbers to ensure that they are covered in their text plans. Some carriers in the UK do not charge extra fees for using +44 762 4801423, and some do.
We’ve updated the help articles with additional warnings that UK carriers are not always excluded from potential international charges, and we’re working on ways to clarify that when you add your number to the site. Our apologies for any confusion on that point.
To which I replied:
I’m even more confused now. If you don’t make money from my 25p, what benefit DO you get from this bizarre system? If they are giving you outgoing messages for free, then that’s one thing. But then that DOES mean you are profiting from the charges. And if you DON’T get a benefit, then why annoy SO many customers? More and more blogs and media are starting to pick up on these as shocked people get large bills.
I’ve now checked - only one of the UK’s five major providers don’t charge.
Vodafone, T-Mobile, Orange and Three charge up to 25p for these messages.
o2 appear not to.
I could be wrong about that, but I got that info from OFCOM.
So I think it’d be more honest to say “most UK providers charge up to 25p for sending to twitter”.
If you want to do something about this, I suggest the following - I’m on 3, so have tailored it for that.
If you do nothing, you’ll get no satisfaction.
Phone the following:
OFCOM: 020 7981 3040 and
OTELO: 01925 430049 - log a report and they will give you the name and address of the highest UK complaints contact in 3, based in Glasgow.
Also, phone your local Trading Stadards and ask to log a report against 3’s UK Head Office in Maidenhead.
I suggest something along the lines of the following letter to your mobile provider:
RE: UK Mobile numbers being excluded from bundle without warning
In 3’s Terms and Conditions, it states that bundled calls and texts are included “to UK mobiles”.
Most people understand the code +44 to be uk – for example:
http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/search/international/record.publisha?id=L231
So, you would have reasonable expectation that sending a text to the UK number
+44 762 4801423 should be included:– as I understand, and OFCOM and OTELO agree – that the prefix +44 means “UK” and the number range 07xxx could be expected to be a “normal” number to send a text to (rather than a short or premium code).
However, it appears that 3, along with 2 other companies, have decided to charge this number as international. Fortunately, by chance, I noticed this after only a few texts (to a service called “Twitter”). Others have not been so lucky, and there are many web forums complaining of unexpected bills of £60+.
This number turns out to be a Manx Telecom number but is NOT excluded anywhere in your terms and conditions, and when I called customer services, they actually suggested that for every person I call or text, I should call 3 customer services, “just to check”. As the hold time is often 20 minutes and calling CS is like pulling teeth, that’s really not going to happen.
OFCOM and OTELO say that your choosing to charge for this number is a commercial decision, however having reviewed your T&C they do not believe that any warning was given. With regards to this, Trading Standards compare the following scenario:
If I go to buy a lemon, marked at 10p, and when I reach the till it is 30p, I can choose not to buy that lemon. In this case, I have no choice – the charge is applied without my being aware of it.
All three would like me to forward your response to this point, and OTELO would like to know if you consider your reply to be a “deadlock” letter so they can then proceed further.
Basically, despite the nonsense from AOTOC and Passenger Focus “welcoming” this move, it has meant BIG increases, in some cases DOUBLE the cheapest fare.
I spoke today to AOTOC, passenger focus and CrossCountry trains - this is well worth listening to if you are in any doubt that this new ticketing system is a scam:
Examples:
SINGLE JOURNEY from Oxford (OXF) to Aberystwyth (AYW)
Currently: £10 After 18th April: £20.50
SINGLE JOURNEY from Reading (RDG) to Shrewsbury (SHR)
Currently: £10, After 18th April:£18.00
It doesn’t appear to apply to ALL fares, for example, Reading to Castle Cary seems unaffected.
I would be interested to know if YOUR journey will be affected:
Using the fares finder, you can check what the CHEAPEST available price will be BEFORE the 18th of May.
If you add the option to select 5 days, you could try, say:
12th May, 16th May, 26th May, 21st June, 21st July
If you see the cheapest prices available only BEFORE the 18th of May, you will know you’re probably onto a loser.
So, next step is to pick a date WAY into the future, say a mid-day in June, and find the cheapest fare (using the “show all fares” button)
And that is your new fare. If you are affected, post details below and if you want, add to the thread here:
How did I find this and how did I know I’m not just making a mistake and getting unlucky on the dates? As I passed through Reading earlier I asked the booking office why I couldn’t find these cheap fares, and they explained about the 18th of May, and that many of the cheapest tickets had been merged into a higher price. And the thing that really got me was that a ticket supervisor made me feel almost like I should have been grateful to have got the lower price - “not everyone can get these cheap tickets you get - it just makes it fairer on everyone”.
Oh, right, so everyone who bothers to plan in advance is penalised (on certain journeys, it seems).
Finally, as if a doubling of the fares themselves wasn’t enough…from ICWales:
“…among the changes being introduced are a ban on refunds for cancelled pre-booked business and first class tickets.
First Great Western – along with other UK operators Virgin, East Midlands Trains and TransPennine Express – currently offer refunds on their standard and first class pre-booked business tickets but will no longer do so under the new no-refund policy.
There is also likely to be an increase in the cost of changing journey times for return tickets bought in advance with some UK operators, with many routes doubling from £10 to £20″
I first contacted Arriva Cross Country, ATOC and Passenger Focus on 28th April to ask about these tickets price increases of over 100%. Since then, I have also contacted them and my MP in writing (only my MP has replied). Passenger Focus adn ATOC couldn’t have been less interested.
Last week, I was contacted by Vikki Miller from the Sunday Telegraph, who had heard my podcast and read similar travellers tales of unfair fares. Over the next couple of days, she and I put together a story (I put quite a lot of effort in too!).
Late on Friday evening, I got a phone call to say she had been called back by Arriva Cross Country.
Apparently, they (Arrive Cross Country) had “discovered”, on Wednesday 14th May (over 2 weeks after I’d contacted them) an error in the way the tickets had been entered onto the system. (An error…yeah right! Sussed out, more like)
However, despite tens of thousands of people booking tickets with at least a £10 premium on them because of the incorrect fare, there was no way of refunding them apparently! So, Arriva do well to the tune of… £50,000? £100,000? Who knows.
The result is that the story was watered down a bit - I still think it’s a shame this angle wasn’t covered - I think she missed a trick there. However, I’m guessing her intervention shook them up slightly and hopefully the result will be the proper priced tickets again.
However, I have just checked at 08:40 on Sunday 18th May 2008 and despite them having “discovered” the mistake 5 days ago, the incorrect fare is still showing on the National Rail website. So this story may have a little further to run…watch this space!
UPDATE: I received a letter dated June 10th with the following:
Thank you for your further letter about the re-structure of our tickets.
I am sorry for the confusion we may have caused in our previous communications with you. Following your original phone calls and letters to us we had discovered some anomalies in our fare structure. This affected a few fares where connecting train operators were involved.
As a result, we have had twenty incidents of customers being charged incorrect fares. These fares have now been corrected and if the customers contact us we will reimburse them. Regrettably as these purchases were made at stations we do not have the customers details to contact directly. We have also made the Telegraph aware of these fare anomalies and our efforts to correct the fault.
If you have purchased an incorrectly priced ticket please send it to us in customer relations and we will reimburse you for the difference in fares.
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to address this matter once again.
Yours sincerely VIC SAVILLE Team Leader
TWENTY incidents?!? I spoke to ten people on trains myself! Don’t tell me only 20 people went from the south to Wales (or any other combination of XC > non-XC) on advance tickets in that time!
And in spite of the above, there’s nothing on the Cross Country Trains or ATOC press release site, and nothing I can find in the Telegraph. There’s a mention of the Passenger Focus statement, though:
Passenger Focus is lobbying Virgin Trains, Cross Country and National Express following changes in ticket use restrictions in some parts of the country.
2 months to not read my letter properly! My point was that the fare had gone from £12 to £21, then after MANY hours of calling and harrasment, XC admitted a mistake and the £21 become £17.50. But I also pointed out that I now have to book A>B B>C to get the price of the old A>C fare, otherwise it’s about £15 more! I also pointed out what a general nightmare the whole simplification thing was, and could we please have the old system back as I don’t really want to pay nearly £1000 more a year for the new system. This was their reply:
Another update - I now have a reply from passenger focus.
Thank you for your complaint with Cross Country which we received in this office on 3 June. I have now had the opportunity to review your complaint.
I understand you are unhappy about the availability of the Value Advance fares on a number of your routes. I can understand your frustration as these fares do represent great value for money if you’re able to get them.
With the advance fares, there is limited quota on some services and they are not a guaranteed fare. I’m aware that the quota does change depending on whether the service is busy and whether it’s a peak time service or not. If it is a busy service, they are unlikely to offer advance fares as this could cause further problems like overcrowding.
Because the train companies advertise these fares as ’subject to availability’ there are no ground in which we can enforce them to make more available. However, we are very much aware of the importance of these fares to passengers and the benefits they bring, considering the cost of a standard fare.
I would like to clarify that these fare increases are not due to the simplification of the fares. The train companies were due to review their fares and they have done this at the same time of the simplification. We did ask them not to do this as we knew it would cause confusion and discredit the whole simplification of fares process, which is something we have long campaigned for.
Thank you for your comments and I hope I have clarified our position on this.
I feel honoured and privileged to have been able to see him three times in the last 3 years, and the fact that tickets were near-impossible to get was testament to his brilliance.
I’m not ashamed to say I shed a tear when I heard this morning, especially when I read the tributes on the BBC
RIP, old friend.
PS - from the BBC page: You can hear a classic edition of I’m Sorry I Haven’t a Clue on BBC Radio 4 on Sunday 27 April at 1200 BST. There will also be a special programme in tribute to Humphrey Lyttleton on Wednesday 30 April at 0900 BST.
A foul smell detected in parts of England and Wales is being blamed on easterly winds bringing farming or industrial smells across the Channel.
Labelled “Euro-whiff” by the Met Office, the source of the smell - alternately described as sulphur and manure - is under investigation.
“Basically, over the last few days, we’ve had fresh, strong winds from an easterly direction,” said Miss Holland. “As a result some of our air is coming from continental Europe.”
So, the elections were rigged, with delayed results and one of the candidates, an old corrupt man, delaying the announcement of the votes while his henchmen fiddled the results.
Those were the US elections in 2000 and 2004, and Zimbabwe isn’t much better. When is the world going to WAKE UP and stop pussyfooting around the fact that Mugabe is a racist and mass murdered?
Wouldn’t be surprised if Ken Livingstone had him over for tea at some point…
